Art has the power to bring people together. In the Chicago area, Innovation 80’s CoGen initiative encourages and funds programs that forge meaningful relationships between younger and older generations as they create art together. What can programs like this one teach us about connection, creativity, and combating ageism?

Join us for a dynamic webinar featuring:

A conversation between CoGenerate founder and Co-CEO Marc Freedman and Arnie and Carol Kanter, founders of Innovation 80.

Reflections from leaders of three Innovation 80 grantees:

• Howard & Darlene Sandifer, founders of Chicago West Community Music Center, a nonprofit combining music instruction with life skills development to uplift and connect diverse age groups.

• Maya Joshi, president of Lifting Hearts with the Arts, a student-founded nonprofit using arts-based programs to foster intergenerational understanding in senior care settings.

• Kamelia Hristeva, founder and CEO of Green Star Movement, a project using mosaic public art to build teamwork and share stories across generations while beautifying and revitalizing shared community spaces.

CoGenerate Director of Innovation Cristina Rodriguez will moderate. You’ll leave with fresh insight into how the arts can spark cogenerational connection — and why that matters now more than ever.

Transcript (machine generated):

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Cristina Rodriguez  

Hi everyone, and welcome to “Art Across Ages: How creativity can bridge the generational divide.” I am Cristina Rodriguez, CoGenerate’s Director of Innovation, and I’m so glad that you’re all here with us for this awesome conversation. We started with a fun question, which is, if you could create something, could be anything with an artist or musician alive or dead, who would it be? And I am already seeing the chat is on fire with so many cool collaborations, like Bach, The Beatles, what else? Tina Turner, Lady Gaga, Georgia O’Keeffe, like, keep them coming. These are awesome. And for me, I think it would be Shakira. So if you’re here and you’re listening, just know that I’m ready. So we open with this question, because today’s conversation is all about the power that happens when generations create together, and how that act of co creation can be a bridge across time, identity, and experience. And we’ll start off with a conversation between Marc Freedman, founder and Co CEO of CoGenerate and Arnie and Carol Kanter, founders and CO executives of Innovation 80, which is a Chicago donor based fund whose cogen initiatives support local projects that are bringing younger and older participants intentionally in underserved communities to create art together. And after that, we’ll zoom in, and we’ll look at what it looks like in real life with amazing change makers who are doing this on the ground around music and mentorship, shared drawing and storytelling, mosaic art that transformed neighborhoods. So we’ve got some fun stories and examples to dig into today, and we may not have a ton of time to answer live questions, but we still encourage you to share your reflections in the chat and your reactions. And if you see that little Q&A box at the bottom of your Zoom screen, you can input some questions there, and some of our guests might be able to answer them during our time. So welcome Marc, Arnie and Carol, and I’ll hand it over to you, Marc.

Marc Freedman  

Thank you, Cristina. I really appreciate that, and welcome Arnie and Carol. My name is Marc Freedman. I’m the founder and CO CEO of CoGenerate, and I’ve learned pretty much everything I know about generations coming together to do things that neither could do on their own through the arts, but I should confess right from the get go that unlike Arnie and Carol, unlike Cristina, unlike our other guests today, I am not an artist. I just talk about art on CoGenerate webinars. But my very first job as a 22 year old was managing a modern dance company. Somehow I got the job even though I had never even seen a modern dance performance, and it was a modern dance company that was not very good at modern dance. It’s our creative performances were awful, but through the young audiences program and through the local senior services effort, we worked with young people and with older people and then with younger and older people together. And for me, it was like a veil was lifted and and it really has helped shape everything I’ve done since then, I think it’s particularly important to talk about the arts at this moment, demographically, we know that a quarter of the population is under 20, a quarter is over 60. We’ve got the most age diverse population in history. At the same time, we’re arguably the most age segregated society in history, we need to learn to work better, together, not just to avoid problems, but to capture the extraordinary opportunities in front of us, and the arts is showing us how to do that in so many different areas, as many of you know, and as Arnie and Carol will often chide me, I’m very music focused, and there’s a lot going on and music. Anyone who saw the 50th anniversary of Saturday Night Live with Sabrina Carpenter and Paul Simon knows that. But anybody who’s watching TV, who’s watching Hacks and Only Murders in the Building, if you’re going to the movies everywhere, arts is showing us how we can thrive together across generational lines, and that’s going to be the focus today, because I think everything we’re seeing in the air that’s shaping the culture is also happening on the ground with real people in real communities around the country. Arnie and Carol Cantor are themselves, artists. They have other careers. Carol’s a PhD and she’s a licensed psychotherapist. Arnie has been a lawyer and a law professor and a consultant, but they have achieved throughout their lives, remarkable, productive, artistic undertakings. Arnie, I believe your bio says that you’ve written 13 books, that in addition to being a writer, you’re also a photographer. But the most interesting, which we should need to talk about offline, is your book “Is God a Cubs Fan?”, a book at the intersection of baseball and religion. I know Duncan will be interested in that as well. Carol’s poems have appeared in more than 90 literary journals and anthologies. So we’re talking to people who have lived a life infused with art and now through Innovation, 80 and through the CoGen initiative, are encouraging and enabling others to come together through the arts, and so, you know, I guess I hinted at the answer to my first question, but, but tell us, why did you choose to focus on the arts?

Carol Kanter  

Well, we’ve always been interested in the arts, just sort of across the board, all artistic endeavors interest us, and partly because the arts connect people with each other and with communities, and there it’s an opportunity for everyone to contribute, because there’s no right around wrong answer to what’s an art and just getting everybody together to collaborate and form meaningful relationships around the arts is very important to us.

Arnie Kanter  

Marc, I might point out that Innovation 80 started just as the pandemic hit, and the world, appropriately, was focused on food, housing, health, all of those critical things, and all of these things dealt with the body, really. And Carol and I thought, well, you know, this pandemic is going to end, and even if the body exists, we’d like to see some soul exist also. And so we thought supporting the arts was a way of assuring that there would be some soul that survived the pandemic.

Marc Freedman 

Carol, are you about to say something?

Carol Kanter 

Well, I was gonna say that this cross generational piece of the arts is rejuvenating for older people and also for younger people, but there’s a long term gain for younger people, because there’s been a lot of research that shows that the way young people view older people from a very early age has a lot to do with the way they themselves age, both physically and mentally. So if they have more positive input from people who are older, their own aging will be positively impacted. 

Marc Freedman  

That really hits home. Becca Levy, the psychologist at Yale, has shown that internalized ageism, negative attitude, starts age contribute to living seven and a half years fewer than people who have positive attitudes towards aging. And I feel like that is what when I look at the arts, it’s, you know, you can have great research like Rebecca’s, but the arts shows us what that actually looks like, which is and and when you can hear it and you can see it and you can feel it, that’s different than just reading a wonderful book bias a scholar. But let’s, let’s dive into that question about what’s really unique about cogenerational art and cogenerational arts programs, because your instincts took you in that direction, and what, what do you see? We’ll hear a lot about it from the three organizations today. But, but what’s unique and distinctive about that cross-generational collaboration and the creative process?

Carol Kanter  

Well, one thing that’s unique is that everyone in the program who’s participating needs to be able to consider themselves mentors. So it’s not just older people teaching or setting an example for younger people. It’s that the younger people contribute as much in their perspective as well. So that’s an important piece for us.

Arnie Kanter  

And also for us. Art is really a vehicle for what we are trying to accomplish, which is to establish relationships between older and younger people and art, it just happens to be the way that we are doing it, and so focusing on the fact that we’re trying to establish relationships is key to making the programs that we try to run successfully. You can’t just take older and younger people and throw them in a room together. That’s not going to work.

Carol Kanter  

So it is our small contribution to fighting ageism. If people form meaningful relationships across any difference really, then whatever ism is involved is erased, more or less

Marc Freedman  

And through this co-mentoring, two way process that you were both describing, you know, we, we did a study this big Chicago focus in today’s webinar, which I love, and we’re going to talk about how other geographies could do what’s happening in Chicago now. We did a study with Newark at the University of Chicago two years ago, and we found, to our surprise, not just that there was deep, pent up interest for older and younger people to come together, but that young people were driving this movement, and I feel like the arts shows us that in such a powerful way, young people seeking out older artists to learn from, to collaborate on. Is that something you’re seeing in Chicago as well?

Arnie Kanter  

Absolutely. I mean, we’re seeing it in the programs that we run, and again, going back to the fact that art is a vehicle for us, we’re also seeing that relationships are being established that have really nothing to do with art, if people are finding similarities between people who are 60 degrees apart in age, but you know, it turns out they both like to fish, or they both like to do something else, and it’s a way of establishing a real, meaningful bond between people.

Marc Freedman  

And what about programmatically? Do you see any key ingredients in making these cogenerational arts programs effective?

Carol Kanter  

Well, I think our organizations would all tell us that food is important. You feed people when they get together, and that’s a bonding issue as well.

Arnie Kanter  

And different ways of ice breaking, whether it’s through questions that may have nothing to do with art, or, you know, creating occasions for celebration too, and fun, I mean, art. Art should be fun. And if these programs aren’t fun, they’re not really mimicking what art is. We think.

Marc Freedman  

Let me, let me ask you a mundane question, but, but first we, you know, we just talked about young people, and I see that my I’ve got a 17 year old jazz basis as a son, and among his friends, the the status symbol is who has the oldest mentor? Because his oldest mentors are seen as being closer to the true heart and soul of jazz, which is in the 60s and 70s. But you are in your 80s now, and you’re still creating yourselves. You’re supporting these programs. What is it about later life and art? I see this among so many friends who are turning their attention to creativity as they move into their 60s, 70s, 80s and beyond.

Arnie Kanter  

Well, this has been amazing for us this experience. And, you know, we thought about waiting till we got into our 90s to do it, but we thought, what the hell? Let’s take a shot in our in our 80s, and the people that we have met, the relationships we’ve established that we never, ever would have met or established without this kind of programming are amazing. I mean, you’re going to meet three of them three organizations later, and they are incredible organizations. But just think about the fact that we’ve been doing this cogen work for couple years, and we could, if we had the time, bring 30 more organizations who we’ve funded in these kinds of programs into this discussion. So it’s just amazing, the types of connections that are formed because of it,

Carol Kanter  

and all across the art. So we do have some dance places for you to do your creative dancing, and not Marc.

Marc Freedman  

I joked earlier that I was going to do an interpretive dance of the possibilities of cogenerational art. Nobody trusts me. Wants to see that. I know one of your aspirations, in addition to your deep devotion to Chicago and to the Midwest, is is for other geographies, for other places around the country, for other philanthropists, to work, to do the same kind of work that Innovation 80 is doing through the Cogen initiative. So you don’t think this is just unique to Chicago because we know as a proud tradition.

Carol Kanter  

No, and it’s not unique to us either. I mean, we don’t have any any way to put this in our court only. We’d love to have it spread around, and it doesn’t have to be through the arts, it can be through any kind of cogenerational program. It all fights ageism, and it all gives an opportunity to people to form meaningful relationships that aren’t really common in our society. In fact, our society works in some ways against forming relationships across generations. So it would be wonderful if people could see their way clear to forming some kind of organization that sponsors these things. It’s not easy to do, and we’d be glad to be pro bono consultants on anybody who wants to try, but you need to be passionate about it first.

Arnie Kanter  

We have a terrific pro bono consultant CoGenerate because we’re fortunate to know Marc and some of the other important contributors to CoGenerate, and they were enormously helpful and inspirational to us. They introduced us to people that we’ve wound up funding. So I think, for anyone who’s thinking about this, go for it, but you know, use all of your resources. You know, think about everybody you’ve ever known in any part of your life, and how they could fit into something like this.

Marc Freedman  

Thank you, Arnie, thank you, Carol. I’m going to turn it back to Cristina, but maybe as a capstone, I’ll just refer to the wonderful writer Wendell Berry, who said in a recent NPR interview that we live in an age of divorce. We can’t what we can do is to put two things together, not all things. Are two things. You’re bringing the old and the young together. That’s what everybody that we’re going to be meeting today is involved in. And I can think of no better guide for that conversation than my wonderful colleague, Cristina Rodriguez. So thank you, Arnie and Carol, who is a gifted cellist in her own right. Take it away.  

Cristina Rodriguez  

Thanks Marc. I am so excited for this conversation with everybody here today. It’s something that is very close to my heart. I started playing the cello when I was in fifth grade, just three years after arriving in the US from Venezuela and music has shaped the way that I connect with myself and with others, and it really has been one of the most powerful gifts in my life. And years after that same love for music led me to start an organization called Mind and Melody that helps older adults with living with dementia and Alzheimer’s, reconnect with themselves while also building empathy in younger generations. And I’ve seen the power of music firsthand, and that’s why I am so excited and thrilled to introduce our first guests, Darlene and Howard Sandifer, they are the powerhouse behind the Chicago West music Community Music Center. And Darlene and Howard have been doing this work for a very long time, since 1979 back at a time when arts programs were being cut from schools, and unfortunately, this is something that we’re still fighting today for the power of the arts in our lives and in schools and to connect and so over the decades, they have combined music instruction with life skills and development to uplift and connect people across generations and backgrounds. And they also happen to have one of the largest movie and music collections that I’ve ever seen, which just tells you just how much they love the arts. So welcome Howard and Darlene, and you can see this collection here. Like, how many records are there? If you had to guess,.

Howard Sandifer  

Thank you. It’s so good to see you. Thanks. Greetings. Good afternoon, everyone. Good to see

Darlene Sandifer 

Thank you, Cristina.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Good to see you. Well, so so glad that you’re here with us today. We’re gonna dive right into the work that you have been doing. You have built something that’s really special. And like Ernie and Carol were saying, like when it comes to music and their arts, there is this idea of a mutual benefit and co mentoring that occurs, and I would love to for you to take us back to this moment when you created this 10 week collaboration where you brought teens and olders together to reimagine a piece of music. Tell us what happened during that time and what surprised you.

Darlene Sandifer  

Well, we had the idea to do a reimagine rhythm and blues, and we went out and we located 10 teens to participate in the program, and they were very excited about it. And then we located 10 elders from the community, and the elders were just local people who were musicians and singers, who live right in the community, who had a history of either playing music, singing music, some of them were very active, still in their careers. The oldest person was in her 90s, still performing, and they were all excited about being a part of this cogenerational program. And so the first thing we wanted to do was to bring them together and explain to them what this whole concept was about, and decide if this was going to work. We were very positive about it. The teens were excited about being a part of something that they had never experienced before. The elders were excited about being able to work with the teens. Some of them had never done this before, in terms of being able to mentor a teen. They had never had that experience because they were used to growing up in a field where they were just self sustaining. You know, they played their music, they earned their living playing, they wrote their own songs. They sustained themselves by, you know, just working with a manager and just trying to make a living playing their music. And now we’re asking them to come in and work with someone younger who may or may not understand their plight of why they were singing the types of songs they were singing, and you had a younger person on the other side having them to understand. You know why the songs that they were going to learn to understand had these types of lyrics, and you know how the two could merge together? So it was a chore.

Howard Sandifer  

But it was, it was fun. And as Darlene said, from the young, younger people, it was a chance for them to not only learn about the music, but the whole cogenerational concept was exciting to them, because, as Darlene said, they were able to talk with the elders, and we call the most respectably elders and and the youngers, I get a chance to talk to them about their lives, the music, the communities, what they had to go through to be able to carve out this profession. And we found that it worked, really both ways. It was such a great respect that the young people learned so much from the elders, and conversely, the elders learned quite a bit, quite a bit from the youngers as well. So it was, it was a great experience. We all benefited and learned from that whole we were very, very, very fortunate, very blessed to be able to do two programs. One was reimagining the blues and the other was reimagining R&B music. And so each program really affected the community in a very positive way, because the community itself got involved. The students would tell their relatives, their friends, about what was going on. And at the end of each 10 week program, we had a culminating event, a concert, and people from the community pour it out into the to the concerts and enjoyed each one of them, where they not only enjoyed the music, they participated. They were dancing, they were singing. They became part of the whole event. And it was really coming together of the community. And we’re really big on coming together with families. That definitely took place, and it was so successful that the students and the elders have continued to ask, When can we do it again? 

Cristina Rodriguez  

I love that that’s always a great sign, right when people want, where is the encore? Where? When are we doing this again? I love how music can in such a short period of time was just 10 weeks, right? Can create this strong bond between younger and older musicians, especially sometimes when we might think, okay, what is what can younger people sometimes teach us? And you know how sometimes we’re thinking about what older people, you know might be like a top down mentorship, but that’s not what was happening, right? They were, I know I’ve heard from you how they share their wisdom in very creative ways, right? And I think that that is what makes that, that connection really special, and then can have a greater impact into the community as well and the families. So I’d love for you to share about that community piece, because I know you have a community orchestra that brings kids, parents and grandparents, and they all play together. So tell us a little bit about that and some of the impact you’ve seen there.

Darlene Sandifer  

Yeah. So we started teaching music in the community, because, like you mentioned earlier, back in 79 when they took music and arts out of the schools, we wanted to implement a program that would teach children how to play instruments. And what we found is that the younger we start teaching children, the more they have the patience to learn about the instruments and to adapt to it. And so we started a program called Wish. It stands for West Side Instructional String and harp. So we had children come in as early as five years old, and when the stipulations was is that the parents would have to be with their children when on lessons, when they come in, because they would learn alongside of their their child. Every Saturday, they would come into the lesson, they could take notes, video or whatever, and they would become the teacher during the week with the child, every day they would practice, and then on the next Saturday, they would come in and the child would be able to move to the next level of the lesson. And so what was happening? We found out that not only was the child learning, the parent was learning. And so as they went through the concept of learning these lessons, then we found ourselves having the parent learning, the child learning, and so we started to go into the schools, and we had some children that knew how to play, so we start bringing them all together. So now we have to make a long story short, because I don’t know how much time we have, but now we have like a community orchestra, where we have young people that are in grammar school age, high school age, college school age. We have parents that come in and they have like a grandparent that will come in and say, You know what? I have a tuba, and I used to play when I was in high school. And we say, Well, come on, bring your tuba in. And so now we have grandparents in the program. And so we have now about 50 people in our community orchestra. We have traveled internationally, to Paris and to South America and Asia. And so I mean performing, actually performing. And we’ve done performances around the city of Chicago, so it is really a great program. And I won’t do a whole lot of talk about.

Howard Sandifer  

I just want to thank again, Erin and Carol, yes, the insight and the in the inspiring us. They were unbelievably helpful in helping us form the ideas. One thing about the program, we just didn’t the cogenerational part. Ernie and Carol put us through our paces. I got to tell you, before we started the program, they made us really, really question ourselves. What was the what was the purpose of us doing this? What were the outcomes, the goals, the objectives? They were extremely instrumental in making this program work. And we’re excited because, as I said, the people in the community really we all benefited from it, right? And they are seriously asking this, when can we do it again? Not when, but well, how soon can we start? Or put it that way? And so we’re looking forward to being able to do more programs. And again, just big thanks to Arnie and Carol.

Darlene Sandifer  

Right, and the whole process of the CoGen, you know, is, you know, they you would think that you have it, right? And then I and Carol will go back. Well, did you think this through all the way? Could you go back and add just a little bit more? And, you know, you go back and add a little bit more. And they said, Well, this part is really good, but could you go back and think this out just a little bit more? And so, I mean. 

Howard Sandifer 

The reason is so important when we implemented the program, it made sense, the suggestions, the ideas. It made sense. They were suggesting the ideas and the things, yeah, ask us to question ourselves about in terms of being able to put this together. Yeah, put this together, right? And it made perfect sense, and it even gave us more ideas about how we like to even proceed. But yeah, so it was, it was, it was a lot of work, and it was not easy, and that that’s not a complaint, it’s just an admission. It was, it was, it was very serious work, but very gratifying to the fact that the community, and that’s it, one of the main things that purpose of our organization is bringing communities together, and we did it now terms of age, in terms of generations, yes, and again, ours is a truly representative of talk about the international community. We’re on the west side of Chicago. Those who know Chicago and inner city, and we’ve had people come not only from our core population, but we’ve had them coming from all over the city and suburbs as well. And we have incredible folks. We have folks from Russia, China, Asia, South America. We have really, truly a rainbow, and they came together all ages as well.

Darlene Sandifer  

We had in the orchestra. Yeah, every time that we have a program, they always ask us, now, where are the people that started this? And we always have to give Ernie and Carol Yes, to stand up and say something. And they’re so, you know, they don’t, yeah, they don’t take one, take credit. But you know, we say these are the people, these are the people you know. So thanks.

Cristina Rodriguez 

Yes, there’s a couple things that stood out to me. It’s so important to not just throw younger and older people together and kind of have this iterative process as you’re building and bringing generations together. So I appreciate the transparency you brought and sharing like even though we see the beautiful moment of bringing the kids and the parents and the bridging divides, it does take a lot of work, and it’s hard, and at the root of it is having a common purpose right and a common goal, and reflecting on that over and over until we get it Right. So I appreciate you both for sharing with us and telling us how music can help connect us, and I’m going to invite our next guest. So this is Maya, Maya Joshi, and she is the president of Lifting Hearts with the Arts. Which is a student led nonprofit that started with a simple idea during the pandemic, which is, let’s connect people through creativity, and what began as a way to ease isolation actually grew into something that was much deeper for Maya through drawing sessions and share stories and even unlikely conversations about like french fries and ice cream. Maya and her team are showing how small creative acts can build powerful bonds across generations. So I’d love to invite you, Maya, to come share with us. Welcome.

Maya Joshi 

Thank you for having me

Cristina Rodriguez  

So so glad that you’re here. I love what you do. I think it’s super fun, especially when we don’t think sometimes of ourselves as artists. So I’d love for you to take us back to the beginning when you started this, and when you realize that there was something bigger that was happening.

Maya Joshi  

Yeah, so when we first started lifting hearts, back in 2020, that was like the brunt of the COVID restrictions and lockdown. And our first program was pairing youth, generally like high school students or college students, with older adults at long term care communities as kind of an effort to combat those pandemic imposed social isolation barriers. And so I participated in the program as a volunteer, and I got matched with three older adults, and one of them in particular was named Robert, who was in his mid 70s. And we got matched because we were both Cubs fans, and we had also said that we were not, you know, the best artists, even though we really enjoyed doing art and so on our first call after we introduced each other, and this was all through FaceTime, because, again, the pandemic, we started with drawing Cubs logos as one does, as a Cubs fan, and, you know, it was nice, but there was also a little bit of a struggle, because, you know, we had to find the right colors, and Robert’s hand was shaking a little bit, and so that kind of got in the way, and that frustration kind of impeded a conversation. And so then the next session we had, we just kind of pivoted, and we were like, talking about the weather randomly, and we were like, might as well try and paint the sun. Let’s do that. And so our ideas were kind of abstract. We were just like, you know, relaxing and just going at it. And that allowed our conversation to flow. And even when there were breaks or pauses. Those silences weren’t awkward because we were just doing our thing. We were just doing art. And so that really allowed us to kind of expand our conversations and get to know each other week after week. And then about, like, a year and a half after our first conversation, he passed away, and then his granddaughter and daughter actually reached out to me, and it was really special, because it had kind of showed me that he was talking to them about our friendship and how much it meant to him, and I thought that was really special, and the fact that I got to meet people in later generations of his family was really special. And so my friendship with Robert really showed me the impact that, you know, doing art with somebody of a different generation can really have. So it was really special.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Thanks for sharing that story. It’s so beautiful to hear, like how you started drawing the Cubs’ logos and then how that eventually led to such a much deeper friendship, and how you’re able to make, you know, long, lasting connections with Robert’s family. You talked about something really interesting that I want you to highlight on like, what is it that makes art easier to connect across generations, versus just like starting a conversation with someone?

Maya Joshi  

I think sometimes when you’re put in a space with someone of a different generation in this one on one setting, it can kind of seem impossible to find one common thread or something you have in common, especially if you come from completely different backgrounds and lived experiences. And that can also make it really hard to keep a conversation flowing without sounding like an interview where you’re just trying to throw them a bunch of get to know you questions. But I think doing art with that person kind of helps your brain focus on what you’re doing with your hands, and you’re thinking less about like, Oh, what am I going to say next? How am I going to avoid this awkward silence? And that, I think, gives room for, like, a less pressurized conversation that can kind of flow in between those silences, because you have options to, you know, just like, hold up whatever you’re doing and show the other person and talk about that, or, you know, talk about something that comes to mind. And it doesn’t have to be super structured and stressful. So I’ve found that it really does help, especially with the beginning stages of getting to know somebody, if you think you have nothing in common, because you, most of the time, really do actually have something in common.

Cristina Rodriguez 

I love that. Yeah, it’s just like when you’re doodling or just looking down on your paper, you’re you’re not as self absorbed. And something else we’ve seen, we just recently did a deep dive with 167 organizations that are bringing older and younger people together, and one of the common themes we found was that creativity really speeds up connection and is a catalyst. So I think you like beautifully described kind of what happens in your brain, which is like it creates this relaxing effect that allows you to focus on something else, rather than yourself or silences, or how those interactions are happening. So thanks for sharing that. I know you have another story, which is about french fries and ice cream and how that sparked another friendship. Can you tell us about that?

Maya Joshi  

Yeah, so for context, I grew up in downtown Chicago, and one of the other seniors I was paired to talk with. Her name was Betty. She grew up in rural Missouri, and she had recently moved to the suburbs of Chicago around the time we first connected. And let me tell you, it was so hard to find something in common to connect with. Like, I was literally trying to say, like, Do you have siblings? What about music tastes like? Literally anything I could think of, and it felt like there wasn’t really that much back and forth in our conversation. And so then one day, she had just come back from lunch when we started talking, and she mentioned something in passing about, like, having fries. And then she like, wanted ice cream, but they had run out or something. And I was like, oh, fries and ice cream. I love that which, by the way, to everybody listening, french fries and ice cream. 10 out of 10 highly recommend that combo. And we connected over this idea of like savory and sweet. And it launched us into this whole combination, or conversation about like cooking. I mean, I guess that doesn’t count as cooking, but like food and recipes from our childhood, and then from there, our conversation became a lot easier and less like awkward or robotic. I think it really challenged the idea for me that like art goes is just like on paper and visual arts and painting and drawing, which is what I had been doing earlier. Really art, you know, transcends itself, and it’s the art of a conversation, or the art of cooking or the art of storytelling. And I think that idea really informs, like, you know, eventual subsequent work with Lifting Hearts with the Arts, and really leaning into that idea that art has so many different facets and can kind of apply everywhere.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Absolutely, I love that concept of the art of conversation, the art of cooking, the art of literally anything, right? And the intentionality we put behind how we do certain things is art in itself. What do you think I’m curious, since you are a student, and you probably your day to day involves a lot of going to classes like what do you think students are learning through Lifting Hearts that they’re not learning in the classroom.

Maya Joshi  

I think a big one would probably be building empathy and connection with someone truly different from you, which is, I think, really important, especially for my generation in this era of social media and texting. And you know, I started this in high school, and even in high school and now in college, we talk a lot about active listening and how important that is, but really putting it into practice and trying to connect with somebody you know, of a completely different generation and completely set of different set of lived experiences is actually really difficult, or it can be, and I think through my own experiences, in talking to older adults, through Lifting Hearts, I’ve realized how rewarding it actually is. And like, for example, I got to know Betty through that initial conversation of French fries and ice cream, and then, you know, later on, and we actually do have very different political beliefs, but actually getting to know her and learning about her childhood allowed me to, you know, learn about why she thinks the way she thinks. And I think in this time of like, immense ideological and political divide that is really helpful, because I could have just made, like, one quick judgment about her based on her politics, but I felt like I was able to really understand that. And I think a lot of my peers also in the program have kind of learned that as well. And then, aside from that, also a big one is probably just like as a young person and like other young people in my organization, especially considering we started this in high school, not a lot of funders were super excited about supporting a random group of high school students. So really, Arnie and Carol, like, took a chance on us, and I’m so grateful for, you know, the guidance and advice they have, you know, put into Lifting Hearts and our projects with them, and the CoGen initiative, because without them and that support, we would definitely not be able to host the programs that we’re hosting today. And even then, like whenever they offer advice on our programs, we kind of do get that intergenerational collaboration in those Zoom calls are in those meetings itself, and they’ve really connected us to, like a bunch of people in Chicago and also outside of Chicago, that has really made this work possible. So we are forever grateful for them, too.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Thanks, Maya, you really like shared with us, like how art can open the door to conversations like we didn’t know we needed, or friendships we didn’t know were possible, and how like doodles and literally just making art from anything can help us connect more easily and deeper ways. So thank you for joining us. This actually brings me to our next guest, Kamelia Hristeva. And I’m really excited about this conversation, because for a very long time, I’ve been thinking, I’m sorry. 10 years ago, I read, I read this book that’s called Love Where You Live, and it stuck with me because it talked about the power of art in public spaces, not just to create beautiful things, but to create emotionally engaging places that shift how we feel about ourselves and and the stories of the places where we live. And so this is the work that Kamelia does, and she’s going to help bring that to life for us today. So I’d love to invite camellia to join us. Hi, so camellia, for for those that have, um, you’re the CEO of the Green Star Movement, and for us, for us that are here on the Zoom screen and maybe have never made a mosaic before, like, can you just put us in that space right now and show us what the magic is. What does it look like? How does it feel to create one? Sure, so if

Kamelia Hristeva  

Sure, so if you’ve never seen one of our murals, I would just say, imagine a wall sparkling like it’s alive with tiny little mirror pieces glistening in the sun telling you a living story. You know, it’s not just art on walls, it’s layers of neighborhood history and memories and culture and hopes and inspirations from the people who live there or have lived there, and then also the ones that are visiting. I think there’s something really powerful like that happens when you stand in front of a mural that you’ve created, like with your neighbors, and by like, all of you coming together, and then it’s it becomes more than just art. It’s about, you know, who showed up and like, what they brought with them, and how that helped, you know, reshape how we then see ourselves and each other, you know, on at the celebrations, we see people just like laughing and smiling full of joy, looking at this art and pointing to some others, like being quiet and just kind of pointing to like, Oh, I did that, you know. And I can’t wait to come back in 10 to 20 years and, you know, show my kids or my grandkids. So yeah, we’ve got over like 250 of them throughout the city, and it’s just honestly, every single one is so different because it’s a reflection of the neighborhood and of the community members that are a part of it. And I just feel so blessed to get to be a part of them, with all these amazing, culturally, historically filled neighborhoods and people

Cristina Rodriguez  

That’s beautiful. I’m like, I wish I had this in my community, and could have those feelings as well. We travel. So there

Kamelia Hristeva 

We travel.

Cristina Rodriguez  

There you go.That is amazing. I know you’ve shared like when you’re bringing younger and older people, sometimes they come in with assumptions, generational assumptions about each other, right? So what are some of those assumptions? They come in and then once they start creating these mosaics, what shifts?

Kamelia Hristeva  

So I’ll say that, you know, one of our first pilot programs, and we still see it today. You know, the new teens that come into the program, they’re definitely, like, hesitant and just not really sure, like, how they’re going to connect with, not just people that they don’t know, but like, you know, this older generation. And so I think, like when they start creating this work, you know, we have music playing, you know, the art making is happening. And I think it just helps everybody really kind of relax and enter this sort of meditative state. And I’ve seen, you know, like when some of the older adults have like issues like nipping, you know, we’ll have, you know, the teens just kind of naturally because they’ve done this before they enter this program. And so they’re sort of, you know, the mentors for the older adults. They’ll go up and, like, help them, and I think that tiny act sort of opens everything up, and then they’re chatting. And, you know, I’ll never forget, like, one of the first programs we had with the teen that was kind of the most nervous at the end of the program, just kind of came up to us and was like, oh my god, you’ll never guess. Like, Miss Gladys told me all these amazing stories about all her travels and all the cool things she’s done. And then we notice the next time they see each other, they just like, check in on their own and kind of start to talk and like, build that. Sort of connection, and it begins. And so I think that’s how those stereotypes kind of are cracked open, and young people start to see the older adults as mentors, as storytellers, as people who you know have something to share and like can help their their journey and and I think vice versa, the older adults, you know, see the brilliance and curiosity of these young people and that they’re not so different, that there’s actually a lot they have in common, you know

Cristina Rodriguez  

Yeah, that’s really cool, that it goes both ways, and like, positive even just small experiences, right? That can happen between those generations can change the perceptions and the stereotypes that they may have about each other, and then what effect that might have, you know, in a longer time, you know as time goes on. And so tell me how, how did, how do you this community? Or how do you decide, like, what goes on the wall? I feel like that’s such a bold choice, and you have to be really careful, because it’s going to be there for many, many years, right? So you better really like what you’re going to build. So tell us what that what that process looks like, and how does the community shape it? 

Kamelia Hristeva  

Yeah, I will tell you, it’s fun, and at the same time it’s very challenging, because one of the things that we as an organization, you know, pride ourselves in doing for the last 20 years is really listen and be so that the murals are a reflection of what the community wants. So we start every project with a design session, so community members are invited. They share with us beautiful stories, beautiful like history. And so then we, you know, we listen to everything we hear, and we work with them until there’s a design that like everybody is happy with, and like wants to get behind and wants to see up on the wall. And so once we kind of wrap up those design sessions and get a design that everybody likes, we start the mosaic building. And during that time, we again invite the community to be a part of it. But then we also bring in kind of like city wide volunteer engagement as well. I think that this not also helps people break down barriers of stereotypes they might have about different, you know, ideas they have about neighborhoods, but it also helps, like, connect our city and help people learn about other beautiful, historically filled neighborhoods, you know, throughout the city, and I think that it helps, kind of, like, not just connect the city, but also break down those stereotypes that we might have about different parts of the city, or, like different neighborhoods. And then, you know, you have that way people proud about their history and the beautiful neighborhood and beautiful city as a whole.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Yeah, absolutely. I can see how that process from the very beginning and having people wait in can shape and bring up stories about what the media might say about what the place they live in, right? And then how, then creating the art can change that perspective and the stories they tell about the places they live, and also the stories they tell themselves and how you know, I think that that is really powerful, because our stories can limit ourselves, of, you know, what we’re capable of, or what our community are capable of. So in a way, it’s like you’re healing generation through this process as well,

Kamelia Hristeva 

Exactly. Well said.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Well, thank you, Kamelia. I am going to invite Maya, Darlene and Howard to join us for a very quick lightning round session where we are just going to, like, answer this question. It’s something don’t overthink it, just whatever pops in your brain. So I’ll wait for Darlene and Howard to join us. All right, here we are, team. So imagine this: You want to bring more younger or older people into your life, but you don’t think of yourself as an artist. So what’s one fun, simple, like music, art or dance idea that anyone could try to spark connections between generations? I’m just going to popcorn it, Maya.

May Joshi  

I feel like that name tune is really fun. Like, through talking to a bunch of older folks, I’ve learned so much about their music tastes, and I’ve added it to my playlists, and it allows them to play songs they like, and even if I can’t guess it, I’ll like it. And like, you know, put on similar songs, and then they add my songs to their playlist. So it’s like this, back and forth exchange about music and learning about each other’s tastes. So I would, I would say that

Howard Sandifer 

I gotta. It me, agreed that was a great answer. Yeah, that was, that was, that’s it, that’s it. That’s a great, that’s wonderful. Yeah, it’s fun and informative.

Cristina Rodriguez  

Any other ideas Kamelia or Howard and or Darlene?

Kamelia Hristeva 

I was thinking, like, something with food, loves to eat, so like bringing, like, your favorite snack, and like sharing and connecting around that. Because a lot of times, you know, we can definitely connect on snacking

Cristina Rodriguez  

Absolutely. And then you could, like, have a contest of different like art ways that you can, you know, if you popcorn, what was it? French fries and ice cream? I don’t know exactly, French fry designs there, just to add a little art to it. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you for sharing a little just idea, and for joining us in this conversation and sharing your stories and your wisdom and your joy with us. And thank you to the audience for joining us on this journey, for being present, for sharing your reflections in the chat. And we hope that today you leave inspired, and you have some new tools in your pocket and ideas for how you can connect with someone that might be younger or older than you. And before you head out, please, you’ll see this like full pop up, which has this question after attending this session: Are you inspired to include more older or younger people in your lives? And again. Thank you so much. We have this QR code here on the screen, which you can scan, and this will subscribe you to the CoGen Chronicle to keep you so you can keep up with Innovation 80 and other news about cogenerational art, and you will be receiving a follow up email from us with today’s recording and some of the resources that were mentioned in today’s call. So thank you all, and have a wonderful afternoon or evening wherever you are in the world. And thank you.